In Episode #16Joe Raboine is joined by Robert Thomas, President and CEO of the Concrete Masonry and Hardscapes Association, and Kris Kiser, President and CEO of the Outdoor Power Equipment Institute. The group discusses what professionals need to know about the upcoming Hardscape North America and Equip Exposition Shows taking place on October 18-20 in Louisville, Kentucky. For more information, visit Belgard.com/InsideOut.

Products Mentioned: Belgard Services (Marketing Team, Sales Team, R&D Team)

Joe Raboine: Welcome back to another edition of Inside Out with Belgard. Today, I’m excited we have two guests joining us. You might know the name of the first guest, Bob Thomas. He is the President and CEO of the recently formed Concrete Masonry and Hardscapes Association. We also have Chris Kaiser, President and CEO of the Outdoor Power Equipment Institute. Welcome, gentlemen, to Inside Out.

Kris Kiser: Thank you.

Bob Thomas: Thanks, Joe.

Joe Raboine: We’re excited about the upcoming HNA event. Before we get into that, though, I’d love to hear about your background, Bob. Some people may or may not be familiar with the CMHA, which is fairly new and consolidates the former ICPI and NCMA trade organizations. 

Bob Thomas: If you thought two associations were good, the combined ones are even better. My name is Bob Thomas, my background is on the technical side. I was a trained structural engineer and joined NCMA in 1990 in the research and development laboratory. I started there and came through the ranks, and I’m now doing association management for our newly formed organization.

Joe Raboine: The combined organization has been something we’ve talked about for a long time. With the evolution of outdoor living and all the changes that have transpired in the last few decades, it’s a great thing for the industry and should help create much greater alignment across all product platforms. I’m excited to learn more about what your group is doing and what you’re doing with HNA.

Joe Raboine: Kris Kaiser, you are the President and CEO of OPEI, but you also head the Equip Expo, formerly The Green Industry Expo, until it changed two years ago.

Kris Kiser: So OPEI took 100% ownership, and we brought the management of the show in-house. Last year was our first time to manage the show in its entirety. This will be our second year and the 40th anniversary.

Joe Raboine: I know this is a tough time of year with the big show only a few weeks away. I was thinking back to the first HNA I attended 15 years ago in Nashville and the following year in Atlanta, and now it’s been in Louisville ever since. The show has gotten absolutely huge in the last five years, I would say.

The GIE, and now the Equip Expo, has been in Louisville for a long time, right? 

Kris Kiser: This is our 40th year in Louisville, Kentucky.

Joe Raboine: A lot of a lot of people in this business were not even born at that time. When you talk about HNA or Equip Expo, what is that? Are they two shows? Is it one show? 

Kris Kiser: It’s a true co-location. They’re two separate shows. There’s HNA and Equip Exposition, and they meet jointly. There’s a lot of overlap with our hardscape, landscape, irrigation, and street care professionals who attend the show. It’s a terrific fit and good for both audiences, but they are two distinct shows.

Bob Thomas: The synergistic alignment of these two shows fits the audience very well. From a contractor-based audience, nobody fits into a single box anymore. People are always looking to figure out how to leverage what they’ve already invested in for their companies and how to expand and improve their portfolio of services. Both shows give them exposure to things that they would never get if the shows were separate. The alignment is perfect for the attendees. I think it’s perfect for our two organizations.

Joe Raboine: I’ve been going to the show for a long time and have seen the evolution of it. You have every piece of equipment product you would need to build your landscape, hardscape and outdoor living business. There is a massive outdoor area where you can physically test, drive and work with your hands on equipment and product, which is not something you typically see when you go to a large trade show like this. 

Kris Kiser: If I had to point to one single reason we’ve stayed in Louisville for so long, it is because there’s no other venue of its kind. It’s a big show, and you need a certain-sized venue. It’s the 30 acres outside, and the venue lets us tear it up by trenching, digging, or cutting. We rebuild it every year after the show, but that’s key. Our folks want to demonstrate the equipment and understand how it works hands-on. So you can see it inside, where it’s climate-controlled and shiny, or you can take it outside and get dirty.

Joe Raboine: I travel the country a lot and get to speak and meet contractors. I’m fascinated by the number of contractors who have heard of the shows but have never been there. One of the things I tell them is, look, if you’re in this business, this is the show you have to go to. It’s not just an incredible amount of training going on throughout the entire duration of the show; there is also networking.

If you’re in this business and serious about it, you need to make the trip. Include it in your budget and go every year because it’s constantly changing, evolving, and growing tremendously since its inception. 

Kris Kiser:  We want to give our attendees an opportunity to socialize. So there’s a peer-to-peer engagement plus a lot of education training. We rely on the professionals in the field, whether it’s irrigation, tree care, hardscapes, pool and spa, landscape or landscape management. We allow those professional organizations to provide on-site education training, but we also want to ensure people have adequate social time. 

Bob Thomas: If a contractor has only been to some local landscape or nursery shows, there’s absolutely no comparison. It’s an immersive experience, and you have to figure out how to take advantage of absolutely everything that’s there.

By the time you do everything from the education to the hands-on experiences, demos, seeing the exhibits, hitting the nightlife and connecting up with professionals, that’s what puts this show at the top as an investment in your annual budget. 

Joe Raboine: This show is so big you must take advantage of everything using all three days because there is so much to absorb. 

Kris Kiser: I’ve heard before that people needed more time. If you’re going to take the time, money, and energy to come to Louisville, Kentucky, for the show, stay for its duration. Take it all in. HNA is a hands-on event. People are cutting stones, laying stones, climbing physical trees and cutting physical limbs. 

It’s the kind of show where you get real-world learning experience, so don’t cut yourself short. 

Joe Raboine: Being there year after year, the people who do go come back over and over and at first, they bring one or two individuals, then their crew or even half the company in some cases. There are a ton of connections that take place from forming new friendships or meeting partners. Oldcastle, for instance, you are in contact with executives working in R&D, sales, and marketing.

It sounds like this year is going to have a record-breaking attendance. Can you guys comment on that?

Bob Thomas: At HNA, things have been going up for the last several years. We had a little bit of a downturn there, obviously, with the pandemic, but things are just skyrocketing back. Hardscapes benefited from people being at home and realizing that they wanted to invest more in their living spaces and create outdoor living spaces at home, which was reflected in the tradeshow. The number of exhibits has increased, and registration has grown from eight to 10 percent. 

Kris Kiser: Last year was our largest show ever, both in exhibit space and attendees. This year, we already know we’re bigger. We’re delighted to see this kind of interest.

Joe Raboine: I love the collaboration. The fact that you guys came together so many years back is cool. When we look at the current state of the industry, I would say there is a lot of uncertainty. It depends on the contractor you’re talking to, but it feels like they’re looking for opportunities to add incremental services, products or whatever it may be to their business. But if you’re looking at expanding into the service side, any professional you would need advice from is probably at the show. 

What does that look like for the show in terms of training and just presence? 

Bob Thomas: The hardscape side was a considerable driver in why we united the National Concrete Masonry Association and the Interlocking Concrete Pavement Institute. ICPI had the concrete paver side of the equation, and NCMA had more of the vertical side, which included manufactured stone veneers and retaining walls. What we’ve done is taken a focus and an effort to ensure we’re creating something of value for the attendees. 

Everything we’re putting together, whether it’s education or other experiences, is focused on the attendee. What do they need as a contractor in terms of materials, installation techniques and business practices? The associations coming together have really helped that.

Joe Raboine: This is like the Super Bowl for our industry, and it kind of sets the groundwork for that coming year.

Bob Thomas:  If you want competitions, there’s a competition element featured at HNA as well. The Hardscape Installer Championship has 12 teams competing with sponsors to see what they can put together. It involves technique as well as architectural visualization. There are also contractor awards for every category of hardscape. 

Joe Raboine: HNA has really evolved. Even at the Oldcastle booth, we’ve gone beyond hardscapes and included our sister brands like MoistureShield, Barrette Outdoor Living and AmeriMix because that’s what’s happened in the industry. Most projects today have multiple products within this space, like natural stone, segmental retaining walls, concrete pavers, or decking. 

I want to talk a little bit about the equipment side. Historically, people think of the show as

mowers and lawn care, but it’s every type of equipment from trucks, excavators, or any equipment a landscaper could utilize, including all specialized hardscape tools. 

Kris Kiser: You hit it on the head. You used the words evolved and evolution. I think the show has genuinely evolved with the business at large. There was a big reconnection during COVID because the outdoors was a safe space. You could talk to your neighbors outside. We all sat in our cul-de-sac with lawn chairs and talked. People reconnected to the outdoors. Whether you’re a landscaper, entertainer, chef or yoga master, you can create those spaces and tailor the outdoors for yourself. That’s a huge trend. 

On the contractor side, what we’ve seen are landscape contractors, designers or hardscapers in an effort to try to keep their personnel year-round, nose into all kinds of ancillary-related businesses. The landscape contractors are doing landscape design, hardscapes, tree care, Christmas tree lights, irrigation, trenching, etc. That’s why the show has all kinds of equipment and anything related to the outdoors.

Joe Raboine: Bob, you touched on the idea that this show has evolved, and the scope and breadth of the product has changed. What are you seeing? Your organization plays a pivotal role in what’s happening in the industry. What are some of the trends that you’re seeing?

Bob Thomas: One of the biggest trends is the combining of different products and systems into an overall achievable goal that you’re trying to have for your outdoor living space. Once upon a time, it was just a concrete brick sidewalk. That’s no longer the case. People are taking advantage of absolutely everything available. They’re mixing materials, incorporating kitchens and other functionalities. I would say that’s one of the biggest drivers. That’s what I still like about HNA. All of the components are there and give people the opportunity to expand across all specialties. 

Joe Raboine: Even our brands under Oldcastle have been segmented. There’s a blurring of the lines between what is masonry and what is a paver. You see all of them in the same space. Looking back over the last 20 years, they were very segmented because this contractor did this, this one does this.

But from the homeowner’s perspective, they just see the space and don’t understand that these products are different. They don’t honestly quite care. They just want a beautiful space when they’re done. So it’s fascinating.

Bob Thomas: The old school of thought was competition, right? They’re competing materials. We’re realizing now that they’re complimentary to each other. We’re transforming the way people build and how they’re evolving and utilizing their spaces. As that concept grows and we’re all supporting that mission, we will all benefit.

The other aspects in terms of trends certainly include using technology for placement and design. On the masonry side, we’re continuing to look forward towards the evolution of more robotics and robotic placements. Then, you can take segmental units and create fascinating and amazing designs that are harder to do with bigger monolithic types of things. Technology is evolving for hand placement and other mechanized types of placements, which will send us into new stratospheres.

Joe Raboine: I agree. I was a contractor in the masonry and hardscape business years ago. When you look at hardscapes, those products are usually dry-laid and essentially use adhesives. The same idea is starting to bleed over into masonry. There is a blurring of the lines. 

A severe labor shortage drives a lot of that. As manufacturers and installers, we have to figure out how we do less with more. How do we create systems that look beautiful, are long-lasting, and meet a specific aesthetic? I think that speaks volumes about what has recently happened with your organization and the convergence of these two great organizations.

Bob Thomas: I love seeing how the hardscape manufacturing is starting to revolutionize how we look at manufacturing for masonry products. Many of the colors, textures and density of products driven by the hardscape side are beginning to trickle over into the masonry side. 

Joe Raboine: The machines are amazing and can do many things. We’re just starting to explore those possibilities, which is super exciting.

Kris, you mentioned this is the 40th anniversary. What kind of cool events or things do you guys have planned this year for what’s going on downtown?

Kris Kiser: Look, you get a lot for your money. You register for HNA or Equip, you’re going to get a bang for the buck. There are a lot of things we put on that we host that we want everybody to come to. So, this year, we have three nights of events, and we want our attendees to come and bring their families, kids and anyone else that’s with them. Again, if you’ve registered for the event, you can bring as many folks as you like to any event. 

Bob Thomas: We’re a work hard, play hard type of a group. And so, you get the business element and throw in the social and entertainment side of it. 

Joe Raboine: A lot of our sales team comes from all over North America, and I get a sense of pride when they feel excitement after they leave the show. I’ve heard so many times that these events have changed their perspectives on who we are and who the industry is.

Kris Kiser: We have about a 50% retention rate, so about 50% come back and 50% are new. We have the largest landscape contracting companies in the country at our events. The billion-dollar companies are there, but we have folks who are just starting. We’ve seen people come when they were just deciding to start a business, and now, they have a five, ten, twenty million dollar enterprise that’s grown over those years. Those people come year after year because that’s where they learn about the business side of the industry from classes, certifications, speaking with peers, and more. 

Joe Raboine: Well, a lot of those same people will tell you that going to HNA and getting involved in a lot of the training and networking was a pivotal moment in the evolution of their company. 

Bob Thomas: When people leave here, they feel so much more connected to what the industry is and how they are truly professionals within it. To me, the people are the most amazing part of this event because you’ve got people who truly demonstrate the true spirit of entrepreneurship. You can come and reimagine what you can do and what you can become as a professional in this business as well as a company. Also, see examples of where to grow, how to grow, and examples of who has done it and how to leverage that experience from them.

Joe Raboine: Oldcastle has evolved. Look at our booth from 10 years ago versus today. I would strongly encourage anyone to come by the Belgard Oldcastle booth. It’s a radical departure from what we’ve done historically. It’s much more focused on a holistic approach to outdoor living with different components. No matter where attendees are in their journey, we hope that we have something for people in terms of training, products and insights from our engineers, designers, salespeople, and marketing experts. 

Bob Thomas: If Belgard is going radical, then I can’t wait to see it. We have over 200 exhibitors at HNA this year, and I love seeing how the exhibitors meet the contractors where they are and give them new things to work with. We’re always trying to improve. We can always improve and do better. 

Joe Raboine: If someone is attending or hasn’t attended, where can they learn more about how to register, what’s available, or what classes are going on? 

Bob Thomas:  I’ll say for the Hardscape North America side, the website is always going to be your best bet. There is an app that you can download as well. There are lots of educational things to your point, Joe. It’s smart if people plan and reserve a course. There’s also a VIP pass that gets you into everything from the education perspective as opposed to doing some things a la carte. 

Kris Kiser: On our end, it’s equipexposition.com. I couldn’t agree more with Bob if you’re going to come, plan. We have 25,000 people that come to these shows. This is not something you can just put together 24 hours out and come in. 

Joe Raboine:  I’ll plug in for Louisville because I love the city, and there’s so much to do. It’s got a laid-back vibe. If you love history or architecture, there’s so much to explore. They have a great zoo, salt mine, zip lining, and the Bourbon Trail. If you’re coming try to extend your trip through a weekend because it’s such a great city.

I appreciate you guys taking the time to be on Inside Out. I always ask the same question, so I’ll start with you, Bob. What is it about what you do that really fulfills you? What gets you out of bed and excited each day?

Bob Thomas: I think it always has to start with feeling connected to the mission. By combining our two organizations, we’re connected to the fact that we’re making people’s lives better and safer. In this day and age, with climate change-related issues that are driving wildfires, tornadoes and hurricanes, investing more in a building and protection is a great mission than combining that with the durability, resilience and sustainable offerings that come with creating better outdoor living spaces. The beauty that we impart while we’re providing those solutions is fascinating. But hands down, it’s still the people. The people in this industry are driven and passionate. 

Joe Raboine: You’re speaking my language. The idea that we are creating beautiful spaces that connect people to make a difference in their lives is incredible.

Kris Kiser: Nature starts at your back door. We’re the folks who create outdoor spaces where you can entertain and engage with your family while being in nature at the same time. We have a trade association, 120 member companies, and the traditional role in Washington, D.C., before state legislatures. We do stuff with the Consumer Product Safety Commission and Congress, but we also have an education arm, the Turf Mutt Foundation. It teaches kids about the outdoors and how to become stewards of the outdoors.

So, you have a trade association that is a way to showcase your industry, and bring others together, and then an education foundation sits on top of it. For me, it’s interacting with that. It’s a people business. As you described, I call it a family reunion. So whether it’s equipment or hardscapes, we all come together.

Joe Raboine: You said something there that really resonates. A lot of people are worried about climate change and the environment. If you think about our industry, we have the power collectively to make a significant transformation in terms of education. We are building spaces everywhere, from residential to commercial, and maintaining them.

When you talk about the ability to change some things in the environment, our industry has the most potential because of what we’re doing and who we’re engaging with. 

And I love the idea of the family reunion. I feel the same way. You see people you haven’t seen all year, but it’s like you just left last week. I’m expecting another incredible show all around. I think it’s going to be fantastic.

Bob Thomas: And Joe, thank you very much for what you do, for having us on, and for all the support that Oldcastle and Belgard provide to the show and the industry. Great leadership.